Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

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Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by matt » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:11 pm

I have thought about this thing for quite some time. When I was young, 17, I had only one lipoma. New ones born slowly during many years. But the older I get the more I seems to develop them. Ok, it might just be something age related and my genes are just activating or something. But I have sometimes thought that what if these bastards would somehow "metastasize". I mean that they could somehow multiply and spread all over the body. One thing that I have also noticed is that some of my lipomas seem to appear in clusters.

This poor guy had lipomas even in his tongue
Benign symmetric lipomatosis (Madelung disease) is a rare disorder of unknown etiology characterized by diffuse growth of unencapsulated lipomas predominantly in the head, neck and shoulder region. Involvement of the tongue has been previously described in only five cases. A 49-year-old man with alcoholic liver cirrhosis presented with an 11-year history of benign symmetric lipomatosis complaining of increasing dysphagia, dysarthria and hoarseness. Clinical intraoral examination revealed asymmetric, globular, firm, circumscribed masses on both borders of the tongue. During surgery, the masses seemed encapsulated from surrounding muscles and could easily be extirpated. However, "satellite fat cells" became obvious, which might give rise to the development of new lipomas.
Source

I don't know what the author means by "satellite fat cells" but I found out that muscles have satellite cells (Myosatellite) attached to the muscle fibers. They are some sort of stem cells that are capable of fixing damaged muscle fibers. They activate only when a trauma or disease is present.

Most of my lipomas have appeared to the location of a trauma.

Does anybody know what are satellite fat cells?
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
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Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by Charlupa » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:11 pm

Mine have sattelites as well
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Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by Laura Roslin » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:33 am

I've not read anywhere that Lipomas metastasize. They are considered benign.
There is such a thing as a Liposarcoma which is cancerous.

Lipomas occur in people whose fatty tissue reacts abnormally to insult by creating a capsulized fatty tumor.

You may want to read this thread:

The Cause of Lipomatosis
http://www.lipomaboard.com/general-f2/t ... s-t90.html

Also please read this thread:

More - Distinguishing Lipomas v Liposarcoma - in same person

http://www.lipomaboard.com/general-f2/t ... .html#p481


In my case, if I bump my arm against something, I develope a fatty tumor in that place.
(This phenomena is much worse in past year, I am 52.)

Some people report that they are fitness buffs, but notice that certain excercises make lipomas more apparent.

My daughter says - well when you excercise, you tear that tissue a little.
Had "fatty" lipomas for 30 years, since I was 20. They are in my arms, thighs, knees & few in calves. My brother has them. Neither my parents or sisters had them. I'm in US.
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Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by matt » Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:46 am

Hi Laura, I know lipomas shouldn't spread or metastasize. That's what I've read too. But the question is, what if they do?

Have you ever noticed that lipomas would appear in clusters? Next to each other, kind of? Of course it might be that I just simply keep on traumatizing the same area over and over again, and in the long run lipomas develop to the same area because of that. But still I have some areas which are somewhat difficult to traumatize and even then I find clusters of lipomas. Don't know...
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
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Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by Laura » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:58 pm

matt wrote:Hi Laura, I know lipomas shouldn't spread or metastasize. That's what I've read too. But the question is, what if they do?

Have you ever noticed that lipomas would appear in clusters? Next to each other, kind of? Of course it might be that I just simply keep on traumatizing the same area over and over again, and in the long run lipomas develop to the same area because of that. But still I have some areas which are somewhat difficult to traumatize and even then I find clusters of lipomas. Don't know...
I've had these evil things for 30 years, and we still don't know enough.

Worse, Matt - in the past several months I've been getting more - it is as is suddenly the lipomas I have are growing and I'm getting alot of new ones.

I know I have new ones where I never had them before in past 3 decades, - on my knees (I never had them there before).

I did have very poor eating habits for about a year, due to financial circumstances.
(Organic food was too expensive at the time).

Well, lets keep plugging along.
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Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by pierre » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:01 pm

Fucoidan has been shown to inhibit metastasis by preventing adhesion of tumor cells to the extracellular matrix. This is achieved by blocking the fibronectin cell-binding domain, necessary for formation of adhesion complexes. Fucoidan was also shown to induce apoptosis of human T-cell leukemia virus type I (HTLV-1) that causes Adult T-cell leukemia. It does so by inactivating NF-kB that regulates antiapoptotic proteins. It suppresses AP-I, a transcription factor involved in cellular proliferation and transformation. An vitro study showed that Fucoidan can suppress angiogenesis induced by Sarcoma 180 cells in mice. Fucoidan has immunomodulating effects and enhanced the activity of NK cells, which play a crucial role in mediating tumor cell death. The neuroprotective effects of fucoidan are attributed to its ability to suppress tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha)- and interferon-gamma (IFN-gamma)-induced NO production in C6 glioma cells and to its antioxidative effects.

http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69227.cfm

Fucoidan is the "slimy" constituent of kelp and other different kinds of sea vegetables, e.g. Kombu
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Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by matt » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:40 am

This might sound a little technical but bear with me.

It is known that before cancer cells can metastasize, they typically have to undergo a shift known as the epithelial-mesenchymal transition (EMT). When this change happens, cells lose their ability to attach to each other and begin to shift away from their original locations. This means that cancer cells are first tidely attached to each other and then they undergo a change or a transformation. It is not clear yet why this happens.

I must emphasize that EMT is a normal process in the body and most of the internal organs are thought to born by EMT. The epithelial tissue sort of changes into organs. But this process is very important in cancer metastasis also.

When the cancer cells have undergone the transition to mesenchymal cells (cells that are not tidely attached to each other) they can start to drift away. There are many more things probably needed before a new tumor will born but this is how it typically begins.

Well, it has also been noticed that at least Helicobacter pylori can induce this transition. Another bacteria listeria monocytogenes is also capable of triggering scattering in some epithelial cell lines. It must be noted that bacteria and their products stimulate inflammatory responses in tissue.

Interestingly, the changes in epithelial cells caused by bacteria resemble much like the changes by hepatocyte growth factor (HGF). HGF is secreted by mesenchymal cells and it has been shown to have a major role in embryonic organ development, in adult organ regeneration and in wound healing.

So to make my point, bacterial infection might explain why tumors occur and why some of them start to metastasize. Bacterial byproducts resemble of those naturally occuring in body and my thus promote excessive cell growth.

I have a hard time beliving that a tumor would occur by accident to the location of the bacterial infection. So the tumor appears because:

1) it's somehow beneficial to the microorganism and/or
2) it's somehow beneficial for the host

Source 1
Source 2
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
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Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by SteVECaRliTo » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:46 am

Kind of? Of course it might be that I just simply keep on traumatizing the same area over and over again, and in the long run lipomas develop to the same area because of that. But still I have some areas which are somewhat difficult to traumatize and even then I find clusters of lipomas. Don't know...
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Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by matt » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:37 pm

What if multiple lipomatosis occurs because the abnormal lipoma cells or microbes from one single lipoma get loose and travel to a new location via bloodstream and a new lipoma is formed?

I know that lipomatosis should be caused by inheritance but the reality is that there is really no proper evidence for it. Infact, if you read the thread I linked you'll find only studies indicating contradictory.
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
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Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by JakeHyde » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:42 am

This whole stream of communication has been very interesting and informative. I see some reflex-negativity in some answers to posts that to me are not necessary and don't move the discussion along such that disagreement or questioning of statements of fact or theory which conflict with other statements of fact or theory cannot develop into RECONCILING discussions that do not force "position stakeholding" to slow the progression of apparently conflicting ideas into enlarged understanding and DEVELOPMENT of the discussion. We have so much of that in our society right now that maybe we are all somewhat "infected" by this counterproductive way of dealing with different points of view or inconsistent information.

But my own "contribution?" to this discussion is to question the definition of two terms that are APPARENTLY very well understood, but which in the case of lipomatosis and more specifically in Dercum's disease might lead to an enlarged field of view of the disease as it affects people's lives when it progresses (apparently increasingly rapidly) with aging.
The two terms are:
Benign
and
Metastesis

The behavior of the "benign" lipoma tumors as Dercum's disease progresses seems in MOST ways to fit the dictionary definition of benign (unable to create diseased tissue across tissue or organ boundaries or through the bloodstream) and yet the presently unexplainable phenomena of chronic pain in areas of the body remote from the lipomas in the "interstitial" tisssue where they mostly reside) indicates some kind of disease effect that (however unexplainable and often flatly denied by treating physicians) creates body-wide chronic pain states (some fairly constant, some quite irregular, and some MUCH MORE INTENSELY PAINFUL than the pain caused by the tumors themselves at their native locations. This obviously does not fit the definition of "malignancy" as generally accepted, but maybe there should be a NEW WORD for the effect of remote pain related to the condition which PRODUCES the benign tumors but might be a much more body-wide condition with multiple manifestation booth in the tumors themselves, the nearby tissues and the remote and different structures (like joint pains). Another un-benign characteristic (noticed by the plastic surgeon who takes out my worst offenders every year more or less, is that some lipomas appear "attached" to muscle tissue. So that means at very least a sharing of an interfacing side of the lipoma capsule with the corresponding area of the muscle tissue. I don't know that anyone has studied this very interesting little interface between two nominally DIFFERENT tissue types, which would appear to some extent to violate the BENIGN definition. And of course, the very term benign does not fit well with the excruciating pain caused by some of the lipomas. they might not cross tissue borders but they don't seem very "benign" when they make you want to rip out the patch of body tissue from which the pain emanates....

The other word, metasstasis , is also not literally applicable to lipomas in Dercms disease. MOSTLY! (because I have in addition to my under-skin lipomas, a lesion diagnosed (without biopsy) as a neuromyolipoma (I think) attached to one kidney. This is definitely out of bounds for where a nice benign lipoma belongs. We also see fatal results reported from lipomas growing in the brain or brain cavity, and some very goopy horror stories of lipomas growing in such complex shapes and so(-either intertwined with or attached to) tissue walls of the small intestine as to create an "inoperable and ultimately fatal condition" (this by anecdote from a gastroenterologist).

As I start to notice the very FEEL of my own interstitial tissue where it can be found between the increasingly crowded "forest" of lipomas and scars under my skin, I am wondering what my interstitial tissue might actually be transforming itself into.

All this is intended to try to break open the standard understanding of the medical terms that are used to describe lipomas, and which "work OK" in instance of few painless lipomas as they occur on most people who report them --but BEGIN TO FAIL TO DESCRIBE THE NATURE AND BEHAVIOR OF UNCONTROLLABLE PROLIFERATION OF LIPOMA TUMORS AND RELATED TISSUE IN THE SEVERE DISEASE STATES OF DERCUM'S DISEASE and related fat disorders. So instead of calling them by names which really don't fit in the extreme cases, maybe we can propose some
tentative new terms
between "benign" and "malignant",
and
between "proliferation" and "metastasis".

This shift in mental classifications, if it could be accomplished, might well lead to a shift in POSSIBILITIES OF UNDERSTANDINT, and consequent paradigm breakthroughs that might help to get our presently frustrating attempts to solve the present blockage of understanding "Dercum's Disease" and other kinds of "stuck" areas of progress in medical science and hopefully in medical practice which may follow the breakthroughs we just keep "wishing for" and hoping our kid's never have to experience.....
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Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by matt » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:20 am

Thank you for the nice and informative post! I agree with you and we still have so much to learn eventhough the medical establishment likes to act like it knows it all allready...

This is why I think it's good to have an open discussion board like this one where we can share opinions and ideas beyond the standard nomenlecture too often confronted. People get easily frustrated and even if they know it's not like they are told they silently accept it.

Well, we shouldn't anymore.
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
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Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by Guest » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:06 am

Hi. "Metastasize" has a very specific meaning, and it is very different from "proliferate". The causes and effects are very very different. Maybe you don't disagree with that; I was a little unclear. These are already precise terms and that help, rather than impede progress.
maureen

Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by maureen » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:18 am

I noticed my first Lypona when I was 21. My OB/GYN advised me not to worry. He has 21 all over his body. I thought wow. I'm 52 now and I have 21 on each forearm alone. There are to many to count. There is one large one on my back and at 'he bottom of my ribcage and spreads around the side like two fingers. The lypoma is about the size of a peach. I've had these all my life and they began to hurt about a year ago. Most of the ones on my back cause pain. I'm convinced that some of the larger ones are causing blockage to the blood flow to my hands. I get reql painfil nerve pain from my ring finger all the way up to my shoulder. I've dropped things from these episodes. I was diagnosed with breast cancer ago. So I see an oncologist regularly. Would anyone out there be concerned, that she doesn't seem concerned at all. She shrugges her shoulders and said we can always remove it. I mean how do I know the deep ones causing problems. I probably have over 200.
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Why Not Get the Worst Ones Removed?

Post by Guest » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:02 pm

maureen wrote:I noticed my first Lypona when I was 21. My OB/GYN advised me not to worry. He has 21 all over his body. I thought wow. I'm 52 now and I have 21 on each forearm alone. There are to many to count. There is one large one on my back and at 'he bottom of my ribcage and spreads around the side like two fingers. The lypoma is about the size of a peach. I've had these all my life and they began to hurt about a year ago. Most of the ones on my back cause pain. I'm convinced that some of the larger ones are causing blockage to the blood flow to my hands. I get reql painfil nerve pain from my ring finger all the way up to my shoulder. I've dropped things from these episodes. I was diagnosed with breast cancer ago. So I see an oncologist regularly. Would anyone out there be concerned, that she doesn't seem concerned at all. She shrugges her shoulders and said we can always remove it. I mean how do I know the deep ones causing problems. I probably have over 200.

Hi. Here are two comments:

1. Your doctors know that FML tumors are not likely to be your cause of death or even to be your biggest health issue in the coming years. That is why they are not concerned. Regarding your breast cancer: The survival rate is very high these days. Most people who suffer from breast cancer simply have it removed and go on with the rest of the lives with no problems. But in some more rare cases, the cancer comes back in a more dangerous form, spreads throughout the body, and kills the person. Again, this is unlikely and more rare, but your doctors would be correct to worry more about that than your lipomas. Your lipomas just aren't a big deal to them.

2. You mention that some of your lipomas cause pain and other problems. Why don't you pick out the five that cause the most pain/problems, and have them removed? If you are seeing doctors then presumably you have insurance?

Best of luck.......




maureen

Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by maureen » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:39 am

I'm not really concerned to much with the type of my breast cancer. Early detection and harmone related and I do take harmone receptors. I can feel lypomas very deep under the skin. My oncologist is very young, but I do trust her judgements as well as well as the many others I've consulted about them. Just so many, and they never caused pain from them. I used to question people who told me they caused them pain. I have choosen the few I feel need to go, unfortunately my husband was laid off right before Christmas. Our insurance was cancelled on 01/01/13.. we are cash pay now. We had a lot of pocket expenses with my issues and hoped to increase our coverage, but...... anyway... thank you for your reply.
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Re: Lipomas Don't Metastasize, Right?

Post by Guest » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:06 pm

Since the development in getting lipomas seem to be such a mystery...as to what, how and why...how do we know that they develop under the bodies way of protection...maybe it makes no sense, but the body forms scar tissue as an inflammatory response, or so I have been told....so what if the fatty growths we develop were not the bodies way of trying to deal with a more sinister body invader...and the result is a mass of fatty tissue...

Unless there is fame to be made off the discovery of why and how...I am afraid that the poor lipoma will be right beside the development of the lowly mucus.....


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