Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

What treatments are you having success with? Discuss diet, detoxification, alternative treatments, and anything else! This is also the place for the ongoing discussion of liposuction and other surgical techniques.

Moderator: matt

User avatar
matt
Lipoma Guru
Posts: 1169
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:01 am
Number of lipomas: 61-100
Location: Finland
Contact:

Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by matt » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:39 pm

I don't remember anyone mentioning this before so posting it here.

I came across of some saline injection therapy studies against different tumors. Saline is basically salt dilluted in water but sterile of course. And by salt I mean sodium chloride or NaCl which is pretty much what we know as the table salt (note: table salt is rarely pure NaCl or sterile).

Salt has well-known antimicrobial properties. It's been used as a preservative and has been shown be antimicrobial for many bacterial species.

This study shows that hot saline solution injected to small liver tumors (Hepatocellular carcinoma) and has promise as a form of curative local therapy and is expected to exert a safe and favorable therapeutic effect on larger liver tumors as well. The authors tell that if one injects solution when it's hot it becomes a physiologic saline when it cools and thus makes it possible to inject relatively large volumes in a single session.
sodiumchloride.jpg
Saline is also used as a dissolvant in XIAFLEX.

This study from 2005 describes that Percutaneous hot saline injection therapy (PSIT) is becoming a very effective way of killing the target tumor in deep human body through direct heat deposition. The study also warns about the possible side effects (burns) to tissues other than the tumor but tells that temperatures from 42-43 Celsius (108F) are cytotoxic to the tumor cells.

Water as hot as boiling water has been injected to tumors located in deep human body through a syringe. At the same time tremendous heat is released directly to the tumor tissues and then kills them through the surprisingly hot water. When cooled down, the saline, unlike ethanol, does no harm to the human body.

This is a pretty new way of treating tumors and hasn't had too much of attention yet. One of the reason being that the hot water may damage surrounding tissues. But many clinicians think this can be overcome via advanced injection methods. Sometimes multiple injections are required.

When tested on large liver tumors it was discovered that 42% of the tumors had gone in regression after 3 months. Median survival age was 10 months (3-36 months). Tumors that were less than 10 cm or had encapsulation were more likely to respond to the treatment.

In this study liver tumors were injected with boiling hot water 3-26ml per injection 3.3 times on average. The disappearance of the tumors were confirmed by contrast-enhanced CT and no severe complications, excluding mild abdominal pain and skin burning, were observed during the procedure.

Sadly, I couldn't find any references on hot saline injections and lipomas but formerly a forum member has suggested the opposite - extreme cold (liquid nitrogen) towards lipomas.
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
User avatar
matt
Lipoma Guru
Posts: 1169
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:01 am
Number of lipomas: 61-100
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by matt » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:36 am

Glomus tumor is a pretty rare and benign tumor that often appears under the nail. It grows slowly and can often times be painful.

Image
A Glomus Tumor. (Image by Wikipedia)

Hypertonic saline is a solution that has lots of sodium chloride dilluted in water. It's basically any solution of sodium chloride (NaCl) in water with a concentration of NaCl higher than that found in physiological saline (0.9% w/v).

I found a study which describes how multiple glomus tumors were treated with 23.4% saline injections in four sessions over 6 months. The authors say this method was an effective treatment alternative.

In another study sodium chloride solution inhibited tumor metastases by reducing tumor cell migration and profiliation. Interestingly exposure of tumour cells to normal saline resulted in a significant increase in tumour cell proliferation.

This third study also shows that tumor cells are damaged by sodium chloride solution 0.9%. Interestingly the study shows that single salts exert have a damage causing action on the tumor cell, even though the same salts, in balanced physiological solution, are more or less not harmful.

This study seems to indicate that hypertonic saline promotes the tumor necrosis factor production and thus limits the cell profiliation (also normal cells). White blood cell level is also increased which is why hypertonic saline enhances cellular immune function.

All this makes me wonder if one could try to inject hypertonic saline solution to lipoma?

Of course it should be noted that hypertonic solution is equally harmful to normal cells as well tumor cells. So the injection should be accurate and the tumros should be solid and encapsulated to minimize the damage to surrounding tissues.

So far I have been unsuccessfull of findind any references to sodium chloride injections and lipomas. The only reference that comes even close is the one with the glomus tumors.

One more thing that I found is that sodium chloride injections could be used as an effective local anasthetic for skin surgery. It has been used when removed moles, papillomas and warts. Apparently the advantages of sodium chloride injections are: absence of burning or stinging on injection, lack of sensitization, and lower cost.
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
251152
Master Member
Posts: 513
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by 251152 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:06 am

hah, this sounds pretty interesting. "Tumors that were less than 10 cm or had encapsulation were more likely to respond to the treatment." and most of the lipomas are less than 10cm and encapsulated. As we can see there are multiple studies and it's hard to point in one direction but I guess it's enough to try to inject a saline into a lipoma and see what happens. Although I'd probably try a regular hot saline instead of a hypertonic one since I'm not too eager to have the risk of damaging regular cells.

Anyone out there with some more info regarding this or maybe even an experience of some injections?

Thanks for the find matt!
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
User avatar
matt
Lipoma Guru
Posts: 1169
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:01 am
Number of lipomas: 61-100
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by matt » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:11 pm

In many tumor conditions and cancers hyponatreamia is quite common. Hyponatremia means that the body has too little sodium (natrium).
Hyponatremia occurs quite frequently in patients with tumors. The systemic manifestation of many types of tumors and the toxicities of cancer therapy are involved in the pathogenesis of hyponatremia of malignancies. Early detection and management is crucial to improve the patient’s prognosis. There is, however, a need for further study into the pathophysiology and the effect of hyponatremia on the outcome of patients with tumors.
Some bacterial infections may cause hyponatremia aswell, like bacterial meningitis.

Causes for hyponatremia in tumorous conditions include:
  • Syndrome related systemic disturbance and production of antidiuretic or other hormone effecting to the amount of sodium
  • Medical Anti-Cancer Therapy (cancer drugs)
Sodium chloride injections and tablets have been used in abortion (Saline-induced abortion). A growing embryo is a little like a tumor at first. They share many similar phases and pathaways and we can actually learn pretty much of tumors by studying the life of embryos.

Oh, and an old treatment for common warts is salt water baths :)

I don't know how accurate info this is but it claims to be an advise of an MD:
Salt therapy for warts

I have seen a lot of wart treatments over the years but none more effective than this one: Combine as much salt as will mix well with a quantity of petroleum jelly. Apply the mixture to the wart, and cover with adhesive nightly. You may debride about once a week. The wart should resolve in about six weeks.—DARRELL A. SEELIG, MD, Chandler, Okla. (143-13)
Why I think the above might just work? Because warts are tumors caused by virus. Salt is both antitumoric and antimicrobial.
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
kingluca82

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by kingluca82 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:44 pm

Ok...
So what we have to do?
How we can find if this is "THE CURE"? :roll: :roll: :D :D
User avatar
matt
Lipoma Guru
Posts: 1169
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:01 am
Number of lipomas: 61-100
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by matt » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:54 pm

kingluca82, this is a treatment at best, not a definitive cure. I guess we need a doctor willing to try this on lipomas. My recommendation is to do the same they did with the glomus tumors.
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
251152
Master Member
Posts: 513
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by 251152 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:51 pm

Hyponatremia means that the body has too little sodium (natrium).
And then comes to mind that Simmonici was advising Sodium bicarbonate as a treatment, Saline injections topic appeared recently and even in Klaus' treatment there was a Natrium Bicarbonate and Natrium Phosphate Schuessler salt...
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
User avatar
matt
Lipoma Guru
Posts: 1169
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:01 am
Number of lipomas: 61-100
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by matt » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:48 pm

Yes, and like I stated before Sodium chloride (NaCl) is a known preservative. It can kill any living cells as well as microorganisms.

All organisms with a semipermeable membrane are subject to osmotic pressure, or the effect of water moving in and out of the cell.

The extra tonicity outside the cell and the osmosis causes the cell to dehydrate (shrink), which eventually kills the cell. By subjecting bacteria to a salty environment, it keeps them from growing. This is how preservatives work.

Check what happens to the "lipoma" (chicken egg) in this video in a hypertonic (salty or in this case sugary) water:



The "lipoma" shrank :) And some of the cells actually die because of the hypertonicity and dehydration if the external salt concentration is high enough.

Here's a cool video showing cells first shrink and then actually burst in just few minutes when placed alternately in hypetonic and hypotonic solution:



The good thing is that lipomas are often encapsulated and thus something like injecting hypertonic solution into a lipoma wouldn't necessarily have a negative effect to the surrounding normal tissue.
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
Mwilson

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by Mwilson » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:59 pm

I recently had my turbinates reduced by using a procedure where the doctor inserts a small needle size device that burns the tissue just underneath the surface and thus shrinking the turbinates allowing more room for air passage which is suppose to reduce swelling and complications with allergy symptoms. He is an ENT and I asked him what he thought about using this technique to shrink lipomas and he thought it may be possible but I don't think he is willing to experiment with it. They numb the area before injection but I did use painkillers after and experience zero pain while the internal scabs/scar tissues were forming. I think this procedure may work as an alternative to salt??? Maybe another doctor will be more willing to try this procedure on lipomas.
Mwilson

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by Mwilson » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:29 pm

Ops. I meant to say I DIDN'T use painkillers.
251152
Master Member
Posts: 513
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by 251152 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:50 am

So basically we can just take a distilled water, put a whooping portion of salt in it (as much as can be dissolved), and then just inject some into a lipoma and see what happens? I mean if one were to try this on one lipoma only, do you think the damage that could be done is that great?

I just don't understand one thing from those egg experiments, if it's about water weight, then as soon as we stop the injections lipomas will return to their normal weight... Like I don't see how is this a solution if it's only about dehydrating the tumor? I don't think its cells will just get up and die because of that
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
User avatar
matt
Lipoma Guru
Posts: 1169
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:01 am
Number of lipomas: 61-100
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by matt » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:20 pm

About the eggs... Yes, I'm not sure what would happen? Perhaps the cells wouldn't die and would "refill"? But in the best case and with repeated treatments they just might die?

Here's also a study about spinal lipomatosis which indicates that the fat cells do indeed shrink for at least 6 weeks. Unfortunally it doesn't mention whether the effect was final or were further injections needed.

Also bear in mind that the title is also about hot saline injection therapy. The hotness of the saline propably makes it more potent against tumor cells. And in the case of most lipoma suffers the lipomas are fortunally encapsulated which protect the surrounding tissues better from the heat and hypertonicity.

I believe that hypertonic saline (ca. 20%) combined with hotness (ca 50°C or 120°F) and repeated injections could possibly be worth trying by some MD.
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
User avatar
matt
Lipoma Guru
Posts: 1169
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:01 am
Number of lipomas: 61-100
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by matt » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:22 pm

Also, considering the eggs still - what if actually the opposite would work? I mean what if the lipomas would need to be injected with hypotonic solution to make them burst and undergo a cell death? Hypotonic solution is basically distilled water. Of course this method too would be dangerous since hypotonicity is bad for ordinary cells too.

Or perhaps a combined therapy would work the best? Injecting the lipoma first with hypertonic saline and then distilled water?

I did a quick search and found this study about skin tumors treated with distilled water injections. It says that all very small tumors of 0.03 to 0.25 cubic centimeters regressed after injections!

I don't know, I'm just mumbling for now... I need to do some more research. Feel free to contribute :)
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
251152
Master Member
Posts: 513
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by 251152 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:05 pm

No matter how much research I do regarding this, all will be pointless unless I try it on myself (as I usually do with everything that makes enough sense).

With current info I have, I'm still not really convinced this may work (or is even safe). I may look more into it although as of now I'm contemplating on trying and cutting one out myself and then using the healing glue and emu oil to see how bad the scar will be. I also want to give a Vitaminc C/Longvida Curcumin a try, if you managed to stop your lipomas, maybe I'll manage that too and then cutting the remnants out will make more sense

Btw, how long has it been that you didn't get any new ones and that your current ones stopped growing?
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
mco
Regular
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by mco » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:26 am

251152, as much as I appreciate your willingness to experiment (and maybe have useful results for the rest of us) be careful. It would seem that the boasted headlines on salt killing cancer is not exactly accurate:

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/08August/Pa ... ancer.aspx
251152
Master Member
Posts: 513
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by 251152 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:45 am

I don't believe in this treatment enough to try it at this point and if I ever was to try it, I'd do it in a way that wouldn't kill me and i'd see whether it works or not from that one try and if not, just wouldn't do it again :D I appreciate the concern though.

On the bigger scale however, I'm just getting angrier as I get more of these and I'm not settling for acceptance any time soon. I'd rather cut myself open than let this condition deform me for no reason. I'm moreover pissed off because I live a very healthy lifestyle and my body's been kept in a very good condition and I still have to deal with this. It's just unfair and I'd rather harm myself while trying to battle this than do nothing and let this condition harm me anyway.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
mco
Regular
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by mco » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:14 pm

I know. I do feel the same. Healthy lifestyle and exercise. And there they are. I know. But harming yourself more will not help. I do not know if you have a few hundreds euros (or dollars, or whatever currency you have) to spare, but if you do, visit a (good) plastic surgeon. They can remove many of the tumors without leaving too much scars.
User avatar
matt
Lipoma Guru
Posts: 1169
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:01 am
Number of lipomas: 61-100
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by matt » Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:55 pm

Yeah, I'm researching different injection therapies but so far none has convinced me 100%. And one must be pretty surtain before trying any injections or invasive therapies because they are potentially life-threatening.

That's why I continue with my supplement consumption while I research and wait for better treatments. My lipomas definitely slowed down after ca 4 years ago when I started eating different antitumor supplements.
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
User avatar
matt
Lipoma Guru
Posts: 1169
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:01 am
Number of lipomas: 61-100
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by matt » Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:04 pm

mco wrote:251152, as much as I appreciate your willingness to experiment (and maybe have useful results for the rest of us) be careful. It would seem that the boasted headlines on salt killing cancer is not exactly accurate:

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/08August/Pa ... ancer.aspx
It's good to bring all information available but to me it seems that according to the article salt does kill cancer, it's just not been tested with humans yet which would mean injecting it to the human body.

And injecting cancer is tricky since cancer is often diffuse and mixed with healthy tissue. This is not the case with most ordinary lipomas which are often encapsulated and isolated.
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
251152
Master Member
Posts: 513
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Hot Saline (Sterile Salt Solution) Injection To Lipoma

Post by 251152 » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:50 am

mco wrote:I know. I do feel the same. Healthy lifestyle and exercise. And there they are. I know. But harming yourself more will not help. I do not know if you have a few hundreds euros (or dollars, or whatever currency you have) to spare, but if you do, visit a (good) plastic surgeon. They can remove many of the tumors without leaving too much scars.
I already did cut out two of them 2 years ago just to test how much scarring they leave and I still have those scars. My surgeon made an incision as big as the lipoma was itself and then used the stitches (instead of a glue or smth) and he's a good surgeon too so... I'd really rather try it myself because first of all with this many i'd have to pay thousands of dollars, second of all I don't think his procedure is the most scarless one, and third of all I'd rather have a full control over when and how many I cut instead of running to a doctor all the time who is tied to one country and has his own timeline (and a price).
The only drawback with all this is that I won't be able to cut out those that are on the back and other hard to reach areas.
matt wrote:That's why I continue with my supplement consumption while I research and wait for better treatments. My lipomas definitely slowed down after ca 4 years ago when I started eating different antitumor supplements.
Hey matt, I know I've asked you this before and if I recall correctly you said you haven't seen any new ones in 2 years or smth but I'll ask again just to clarify - did their progression slow down, which means you're still getting new ones (and old ones grow), or did they stop completely?
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests