Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

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Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by mickey224 » Sat May 11, 2013 12:21 am

I've had truly horrible scarring from 18 lipomas that I've had taken out. So I will now be focusing on lipolysis injections.

There are mainly two options: phosphatadylcholine (PPC), phosphatadylcholine with deoxycholate (PC/DC), or deoxycholate alone. Deoxycholate is more effective at killing fat cells than PPC, but it has been associated with necrosis of regular (non-fat) tissue. The least risky formulation is one that contains 2% DC. Studies have shown that 2% DC works as well as or better than PC/DC.

I have chosen to use pure PC injections every ten days because there are very few risks involved if the injections go into regular tissue by mistake. I got my first round of injections done by a doctor, but realized that I could do a better job than him, so I did the second treatment myself.

I used a 15 mm-long, 30G needle and infused the lipomas until they became hard lumps. I will administer this treatment every ten days for 5 treatments.

http://www.farmaciaenandorra.com/shop/m ... p-489.html

For the lipomas that are clearly delineated and easy to inject without error, I will buying and using 2% PC/DC from here:

http://www.mesobeautyslim.com/phosphati ... g-p-5.html

They also have a 5% DC mix which is intriguing, but I'd just restrict usage to the most obvious lipomas.

I will post my progress here...
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by Jax » Mon May 13, 2013 9:52 am

I hope your Lipolysis treatment goes well. I've been considering alternatives to surgery because I have had 2 surgerys which failed to remove one single Lipoma. Anyways if I hear enough positive reviews from you guys I might try this myself. Btw do you know if the injections cause scarring?
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by matt » Mon May 13, 2013 11:14 am

Thanks for the info mickey224!


As the Admin of this board I must emphasize that what you are doing is potentially dangerous and I wish this thread serves for information purposes only. I hope no one decides to self-inject anything unless they have a proper training for it.


Now when I got that off my chest I'd like to make some questions:

1) Do you inject the same lipoma multiple times per session?
2) How much (amount) would you estimate you inject per lipoma?
3) How did you come up with the 10 day period?
4) Can you post where you found out DC has been associated with non-fat necrosis?
5) When did you get your first shots and were they plain PC? How much did it cost?

I have personally had PC+DC injections to many of my lipomas. I had three rounds 8 weeks apart. Some shrank but none disappeared. It was not covered by my insurance and cost me around €300 per session so I couldn't continue it any longer. Also it wasn't easy to get this treatment in Finland since it isn't approved to treat lipomas.

But I was left with the feeling that more sessions would be needed + the amount I was injected was too small.

So this will be an interesting thread to follow.

BTW your first link is in Spanish so I used the Google translator:
Mesostabyl
The phosphatidylcholine (Mesostabyl) is a fat burner located world's fastest 100% natural extracted from soy.

This microinjection technique is phosphatidylcholine, a major component of soy lecithin. It is characterized by its ability to break down fat.

Phosphatidylcholine is approved to lower cholesterol, increase metabolism and improve cellular function and liver. It has used about 15 years to reduce cellulite. Phosphatidylcholine (mesostabyl) breaks the bonds between fat cells (adipocytes), the fat dissolves and becomes liquid, then is removed via the urine and feces.

Side effects Mesostabyl injection:
Common: burning and temporary bruising. Peaks and tenderness in the area, inflammation, swelling and redness 48h. Mesostabyl treatment provides a volume reduction applied area, better tone and firmness. Some patients feel nodules which are dissolved in 2 weeks.
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by lipomas1 » Tue May 14, 2013 4:55 pm

hey all,

I did the whole PC/DC injections thing on 20+ lipomas (every 4 – 6 weeks over a 5 month period). The PC/DC injections definitely made some of the lipomas smaller, but not all of them. Also the lipomas that reduced in size became much harder. This make sense, as the doctor explained to me, that once all the fat in the lipoma is dissolved, the sack encapsulating the lipoma will still be left.

(Just a warning though, to whoever has these injections, where the doctor missed the lipoma, the PC/DC did cause some discomfort, mainly a burning sensation, which disappeared after a day or two. However in some areas – on my wrist and lower thigh, there was a numb pain which persisted for well over 2 months.)

I have subsequently considered having some collagenase injected into the lipomas, however I am waiting on the results of the biospecifics human lipoma trials.

http://www.biospecifics.com/pipeline/

Any questions, feel free to ask.
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by dianemos » Thu May 16, 2013 1:26 pm

hello everybody!i tried a month ago these kinds of injections..in my right forearm i've got 4..i made injection in 2 of these and in some lipomas in my legs...in those 2 in my forearm(the right one) redness in the area still remain..the size decreased BUT now it is much harder than it was before..the same thing with the 2nd one..reduction on its size but the major reduction i have observed was in the other 2 lipomas which are close to the 2nd one..i do not know what kind of factors could be responsible for that result, but it seems to me that with injections not direct but near the "affected" area,could avoid redness , marking and other side effects...for many days after the treatment these areas in my forearm,were very puffy..i am curious about the affection of that kind-of-liquid inside my injected area which now seems to shrunk into a stony thing around my lipomas..
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by mickey224 » Fri May 17, 2013 1:25 am

Well- one week after my second round of injections and the lipomas have turned much harder. They were previously much softer.

This goes with the anecdotal experiences that I've read of the many other people who have had these injections. The lipomas become harder in the short term and then they very slowly become softer and smaller in the long term.

I will continue to update you guys. But so far I have no complications or lasting burning sensations. I am aware that, because I'm only using PC alone, I will require many more treatments and it may take longer to see some results. However, my research shows that necrosis of regular tissue was mainly associated with deoxycholate. So given that I am self-administering the injections, I'd like to reduce the risk as much as possible....
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by mickey224 » Fri May 17, 2013 1:40 am

lipomas1 wrote:hey all,

I did the whole PC/DC injections thing on 20+ lipomas (every 4 – 6 weeks over a 5 month period). The PC/DC injections definitely made some of the lipomas smaller, but not all of them. Also the lipomas that reduced in size became much harder. This make sense, as the doctor explained to me, that once all the fat in the lipoma is dissolved, the sack encapsulating the lipoma will still be left.

(Just a warning though, to whoever has these injections, where the doctor missed the lipoma, the PC/DC did cause some discomfort, mainly a burning sensation, which disappeared after a day or two. However in some areas – on my wrist and lower thigh, there was a numb pain which persisted for well over 2 months.)

I have subsequently considered having some collagenase injected into the lipomas, however I am waiting on the results of the biospecifics human lipoma trials.

http://www.biospecifics.com/pipeline/

Any questions, feel free to ask.
From what I can see, collagenase injections should help reduce/dissolve the hard lumps (fibrous capsules) that were left after your PC/DC injections. Clinical studies describe the effect of collagenase as "Treatment of the lipoma with an injection of XIAFLEX (a protein that breaks down collagen fibers) may dissolve the collagen/fibrous strands thereby decreasing the size of the lipoma or removing it."

In fact, it seems that collagenase injections would have more success than PC/DC injections, because it not only dissolves fat, but also deals with the fibrous capsule.

http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01613313
Laura

Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by Laura » Sat May 18, 2013 6:57 pm

does your doctor do any sort of imaging or ultra sound to verify the locations of all lipomas?

If not, are there doctors who do use that before doing surgery or treatments?
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by mickey224 » Sat May 18, 2013 8:48 pm

Laura wrote:does your doctor do any sort of imaging or ultra sound to verify the locations of all lipomas?

If not, are there doctors who do use that before doing surgery or treatments?
The doctors I have used do not use ultrasound. That would be way too expensive!
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by Klaus » Sun May 26, 2013 4:53 am

Dear Members

please believe you must be very very careful with this treatment! Regardless if that is done by a doctor or you doing it on your own. It will not help, because it is not for lipoma-tumors created; it is for general fate sections on your body, and even that is in doubt!. I wrote a blog about this and had a long discussion with the main board Network-Lipolysis, Germany. From the long correspondence with them, I can say be very serious! In Australia the customs were investigating a hospital in Sydney, because it is illegal to import this stuff. There is also another organisation which I have requested to stop there false activity, they using PPC. All is rubbish; it is only money making business. Don't damage your body!!

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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by matt » Mon May 27, 2013 1:10 pm

Klaus, I'm a living proof that Lipostabil (includes both PC + DC) works in some degree. But three rounds were not enough to remove any of my lipomas.

Also you mentioned http://www.network-lipolysis.com

They say in their frontpage:
Possible body regions to treat with lipolysis are for example: double chin, cheeks, hips, lovehandles, saddle bags, upper and lower legs, upper arms, lipomas, cellulite...
They have also a study available in their site which concludes that regrowth is possible after previous treatment with phosphatidylcholine and deoxycholate.

But as far as I have understood Network-Lipolysis has been concentrating solely on phosphatidylcholine.

If done properly by a professional risks are small but do exist like with every drug.
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by mickey224 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:44 pm

So here's an update: I've had 3 injections over 3 months to over 20 lipomas on my thighs and arms. I haven't noticed any significant results. The lipomas became very hard after the injections and then some of them subsequently became softer and smaller. The ones that became smaller are approximately 10% smaller, so no huge effect was seen.

I will be ordering the following products:

5% DC

http://www.mesobeautyslim.com/sodiumdeo ... p-151.html

In order to reduce risk, I will be diluting the 5% DC with bacteriostatic water or PPC to reduce its concentration to 1.25% DC and then injecting the lipomas. The ampoules comes in 2ml 5% DC, so I would be adding 6ml of bacteriostatic water or PPC to bring the solution down to 1.25%. (Is this calculation correct??)

I still haven't decided whether to dilute with PPC or water yet, simply because some studies show that deoxycholate works better alone than when combined with PPC. Feedback anyone?
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by mickey224 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:27 pm

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with collagenase injections and whether it also dissolves the fibrous capsule....?
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by matt » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:02 pm

Hi mickey! Thx for the update. It looks like you are now in the position I am. Three rounds of PC/DC injections to around dozen lipomas. None of them disappeared but some shrunk perhaps upto 50% while some shrunk none.

I have always had the feeling that if I had continued taking the shots they might have shrunk more but who knows?

How much have you been injecting to a single lipoma? I believe my doc injected too little compared to this guy:

Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by mickey224 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:54 pm

Hi mickey! Thx for the update. It looks like you are now in the position I am. Three rounds of PC/DC injections to around dozen lipomas. None of them disappeared but some shrunk perhaps upto 50% while some shrunk none.
I've had three rounds with PPC, which has given me extensive practice at injecting myself with little/no risk. PPC is now known to not have the same efficacy as DC in destroying fat cells, but it is much safer. I'd suggest you try the same to get some experience with injecting yourself. But I wouldn't expect results fast. It probably has only 10% of the efficacy of 1%-2% DC, so I won't be wasting more of my time on it. I'll be switching to 1% DC from now on.

I have always had the feeling that if I had continued taking the shots they might have shrunk more but who knows?
I believe that you would experience more reductions if you continue. The studies I've read show that some people get a 100% reduction of lipoma after one injection while other people get it after 8-10 injections. I don't however believe in paying $500 for each round of injections when you can learn to do it yourself.
How much have you been injecting to a single lipoma? I believe my doc injected too little compared to this guy:
I used 10ml of PPC for 13 small lipomas and I believe that I was quite generous.

I strongly suggest that you read this study: http://www.mulhollandmd.com/mdu/discipl ... rticle.pdf

It examines different concentrations of sodium deoxycholate (1%, 2.5% and 5%) on lipomas and it found that 1% destroys the same amount of fat cells as 5%, but with much less side effects. And at 1%, the lipoma reductions were pretty dramatic- though they seemed to require more overall treatments. BUT- at that low concentration you can well afford to inject your lipomas with a generous amount without being too concerned about it harming regular tissue.

I'm quoting the most relevant parts below:
"Notably, most patients treated with 5.0% or 2.5% deoxycholate experienced moderate to severe burning within minutes of injection and mild, sustained localized swelling (#6 weeks). Cutaneous paresthesias (numbness with loss of soft touch and pinprick sensation)lasting up to 6 weeks was noted overlying lipomas 6 and 11 (from the forearm of two separate patients), both of which were injected with the 5.0% deoxycholate. In contrast to higher concentrations, 1% deoxycholate caused significantly less side effects. Several patients reported no discomfort at any point in time after injection. Adverse effects at this concentration included mild burning persisting no longer than 24 hours; erythema lasting for 24 hours to 5 days; and several days of very mild swelling and tenderness.

High concentrations of deoxycholate are associated with more severe and prolonged side effects
including cutaneous anesthesia, which may be related to the localized inflammatory reaction and/or a direct caustic effect of deoxycholate on nerves. Two patients reported paresthesias of the skin overlying forearm lipomas after injection with 5% deoxycholate. This effect was likely related to the higher deoxycholate concentration and their proximity to local nerves, as evident in one surgically excised lipoma. Low concentration (1%) was uniformly tolerated by all patients and not associated with any significant adverse events.

Patients treated with the lowest (1%) dose of deoxycholate had as good as or better response compared with those patients treated with higher concentrations. Once a minimum effective deoxycholate concentration is attained, increasing detergent concentration may no longer confer additional dissolution of the lipoma, but instead contribute to adverse effects (burning, prolonged induration, paresthesias)."
That being said, I am simply going to buy the 5% 2ml deoxycholate and diluting it with 8ml bacteriostatic water to get 1% DC. This looks to be much more effective than the PPC only injections that I've tried so far. Not to mention that at $42 for 10 ampoules... it's a pretty good deal.
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by 251152 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:58 am

Hey mickey, it's been a while, any updates?
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by mickey224 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:40 pm

Ok, so I followed through with the plan I outlined above. I bought 5% sodium deoxycholate from here: http://www.mesobeautyslim.com/sodiumdeo ... p-151.html and then diluted it with sterile water to make a 1% solution.

Then I injected all my lipomas on July 16, 2013. Within 2-3 weeks they all became very hard lumps and it seemed like they were getting bigger. I experienced bruising and sore spots. Then the excess swelling gradually reduced and now at 8 weeks after the injection, most of the lipomas are 10% smaller. However, while they were soft rubbery lumps before, they are much harder now. On my arm, it seems like one lipoma has split into two smaller lumps.

It is clear to me that DC is more effective than PPC. My plan is to repeat the treatments every 8 weeks.
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by 251152 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:51 pm

10% is a pretty small change to be able to tell for sure isn't it? Don't wanna sound negative or anything but are you sure they got smaller?
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by matt » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:47 am

Mickey, how much would you say you injected per lipoma? The guy in the upper video seems to be injecting pretty much...
Hi I'm Matt - the creator and owner of this site. I have dozens of small nasty lipomas all over. I've tried many treatments including surgery and Lipostabil injections. See my lipoma prevention supplement recommendations and please consider donating a small amount via PayPal (click the Donate button) to keep this site up and running. Thx!
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Re: Trying Injection Lipolysis (Lipostabil) (PPC or PC/DC)

Post by mickey224 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:28 pm

251152 wrote:10% is a pretty small change to be able to tell for sure isn't it? Don't wanna sound negative or anything but are you sure they got smaller?
I didn't answer immediately because I wanted to check all my lipomas. There is one which is 30% smaller. The rest are slightly smaller but harder. While they were soft and malleable before, they are now very hard lumps.

I've also observed two lumps appearing where one lipoma used to be. This can be for two reasons: first- the DC solution caused scarring and an additional lipoma to form. Second- the DC solution caused the lipoma to break into two slightly smaller pieces.

I just injected myself again today Sept 19, 2013, and I will update you in a month to let you know what happened.
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