What causes lipomas?

[matt]

What causes lipomas or any related conditions?

The most common answer is our genes. And in a way it is true.

But nothing in life is absolute, neither are the genes. Instead the genes are turned on and of all the time. For some reason we tend to think there is absolutely nothing to be done to some gene related things.

And that is absolutely not true.

I tend to believe lipomas appear because something in our bodies triggers some part of our genes to be activated or shut down.

Some people might be more prone to these kinds of happenings which might explain why some get cancer and other diseases while others don't. But there are documented occasions where the lipomas have disappeared more or less spontaneously.

I remember reading about a man who received chemotherapy to his cancer and his lipomas disappeared as well. The ozone therapy (blood circled through an ozone generator) has been shown to remove lipomas completely.

This makes me to question the sustainability of the gene misfunctioning. I tend to believe that when the triggering effect is removed the body is capable of healing itself.

Both chemotherapy and ozone are disinfective. Why would a disinfective substances remove lipomas?

[ryan]

I've thought long and hard over the cause of my lipomas. I got one when I was 24 on the underside of one of my triceps (had it removed), and then when I was about 29, I started getting crops of them growing, mostly on my arms and legs. It has been a long few years with these things. I'm hoping that a cure, or at least a better treatment, will soon present itself. I've already had about 20 of these suckers removed. The scars fade, but they take a heck of a long time, and who wants scars all over their body? Anyway, thanks for starting/moderating this site!

[matt]

Hi ryan!

I couldn't agree with you any more. The triceps seem to be a very common place for lipomas to appear. I have them too there and one of my oldest lipoma is under my tricep. There seems to be a nice amount of fat there.

Most, if not all, of my lipomas have appeared on the location I have had trauma and hematoma. There is definitely some metabolism malfunction going on with the healing process. I once followed a site on my thigh where I had a trauma and hematoma. It took about two weeks when I started to feel a hardening on the site. Now there's small lipoma at that spot.

I know, not all lipomas are caused by traumas but mine seem to especially pop up after a trauma.

I try to advoid any hematomas but of course over the years it is simply impossible.

But I'm quite confident we will find a cure, not just a treatment. And I have to remind you, there are all ready some good treatments available like collagenase and deoxycholate injections. They are a bit costly and somewhat difficult to find but are worth it. Of course if you have hundreds of them it might feel pretty damn frustrating.

I currently feel that there might be a chance to control, maybe even shrink, the lipomas by eating certain natural substances. I hope to hear success stories on this board later on.

[Durable]

matt, you say that there are ways to minimize lipomas/ cure them, (there are all ready good treatments available like collagenase and deoxycholate injections.)

have you tried it and it worked or talked with someone about it?

where would i get hold of a cure like this? thnx

[danny1]

Hi there,
We are almost sure that formation of multiple lipomas is genetic. What is more, since lipomas appear at a certain age - in the majority of cases it is in one's thirties or forties - their popping up might be triggered by lowering of natural phosphatidylcholine level in the body. I am also of the opinion that they are caused by lactic acid in the muscles.
I used to exercise a lot - gym, initially, but the moment I returned home and took a shower, I felt itching which was a prelude to lipoma formation.
I quit gym, but I switched to do push-ups. After some time I noticed - to my horror - that fat in my arms changed its structure. When I stretch my skin, it is visible that the fat deposits under my skin are lumpy, as if grains of fat started to cluster together. For now, everything looks, more or less, like this:
http://www.freesecrets4life.com/wp-cont ... ghting.jpg
When I rub the skin on my arms, I can feel hundreds of grains of fat...
I have to admit that I am getting more and more depressed by this freaking disease.
regards,
Danny

[Durable]

i got my first lipoma at the age of 18, i too worked out at the time,

but i got alot more of lipomas while i was away from the gym traveling australia, i was away for a year having fun, unfortunaly that was the last time i could walk around with no shirt on, cus then i started getting visible lipomas on my back.

after thinking that lipomas might be attached to drinking i started to drink alot less, unfortunaly drinking doesnt seem related as they still grew after i cut down on the drinking,. now im 28 with multiple lipomas

[ryan]

I really believe that working out has no impact on lipoma formation.

[sjohn]

Hi forum,

There is no absolute answer to the question "what causes lipomas?".

Lipomas are not created because your body doesn't have better things to do. There is a reason your body creates lipomas. However that reason has not yet been fully determined. Most of the research on the subject is not yet published and i would not expect it to be published, at least not in the following years. The numbers of researchers and physicians in the western world that deal with those kind of fat disorders as their main research subject is, to put it mildly, "scarce". There are, however, some people (see http://www.lipomadoc.org/) who are very active on this subject.

The only way to fully determine the cause behind these disorders is to study in detail the macroscopic and microscopic aspect of the matter. Personal DNA evaluations must be made, but DNA mapping studies are still very expensive. However there is hope that in the next decade DNA mapping will be cheap enough (see http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... 7_dna.html) to undertake such kind of studies in a more massive scale (eg you might be able to order your own DNA map).

Personally i think (at least concerning FML) lipomas have something to do with the Lymphoid system. I have noticed that some of my lipomas (if not all) are located above my lymphatic vessels (see http://www.innerbody.com/image/lympov.html). But that might be just me. You have to consider that there are many different types of lipomas, so each type might relate to something different.

[sjohn]

Hi forum,

There is no absolute answer to the question "what causes lipomas?".

Lipomas are not created because your body doesn't have better things to do. There is a reason your body creates lipomas. However that reason has not yet been fully determined. Most of the research on the subject is not yet published and i would not expect it to be published, at least not in the following years. The numbers of researchers and physicians in the western world that deal with those kind of fat disorders as their main research subject is, to put it mildly, "scarce". There are, however, some people (see http://www.lipomadoc.org/) who are very active on this subject.

The only way to fully determine the cause behind these disorders is to study in detail the macroscopic and microscopic aspect of the matter. Personal DNA evaluations must be made, but DNA mapping studies are still very expensive. However there is hope that in the next decade DNA mapping will be cheap enough (see http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... 7_dna.html) to undertake such kind of studies in a more massive scale (eg you might be able to order your own DNA map).

Personally i think (at least concerning FML) lipomas have something to do with the Lymphoid system. I have noticed that some of my lipomas (if not all) are located above my lymphatic vessels (see http://www.innerbody.com/image/lympov.html). But that might be just me. You have to consider that there are many different types of lipomas, so each type might relate to something different.

I would like to update on some stuff. It Seems like the number of publications on lipomas since the last time i checked has vastly increased! Interest seems to be increasing and that is a good thing.

If you check here http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... archtype=a you'll notice that the number of publications on 2010 has almost doubled since 2003! Total number of articles on lipomas has reached a whooping 12.145 !

Don't know if you realise but this is very encouraging! More cases appear and the interest increases. Lets hope it wont take long to find the cause behind lipomas.

[matt]

I have posted this to other thread already but thought of copying it here. What do you think about it?

I have wondered about the relationship between the malignant and benign tumors. I have tried to find a good description between the differences of the two but so far haven't come across any good source. Anyway, while researching the internet I came across the old idea that some cancers might occure because of fungi. The Italian oncologist Dr. Simoncini has long ago proposed a simple cure for cancer: Sodium Bicarbonate. He describes that the Sodium Bicarbonate in the number on killer of a certain fungi that he thinks causes many cancers.

As I read the related websites and articles I noticed this quote:

Could you please explain how to treat lipomas?
In my opinion lipomas are like cysts caused by fungi. If they are big they are to be treated with direct injections into the lumps, otherwise around them.

I haven't studied the material on his site http://www.curenaturalicancro.com/en/ too much yet but as far as I understand there can be beneficial effects eating pure Sodium Bicarbonate orally. But before you rush to the local supermarket please study some more!

Could this work?

[sjohn]

Could you please explain how to treat lipomas?
In my opinion lipomas are like cysts caused by fungi. If they are big they are to be treated with direct injections into the lumps, otherwise around them.

I haven't studied the material on his site http://www.curenaturalicancro.com/en/ too much yet but as far as I understand there can be beneficial effects eating pure Sodium Bicarbonate orally. But before you rush to the local supermarket please study some more!

Could this work?

This sure is interesting. Well, for one thing, we can be certain that Dr. Simoncini is not doing this to sell NaHCO3 (as it is one of the most widely available substances on the market) ! But it seems like just an assumption he makes, not sure that he has a lot of evidence on the subject. Nevertheless, we can always contact him for more details or even try the damn thing. From what i read about it is safe.

Also i remember reading that they use sodium bicarbonate for lipomas in homoeopathy??

I'll definitely do some research on this.

[Charlupa]

I like the lymphatic system theory. Mine also seem to be above lymph sites and every year or so I get swollen glands. I have been diagnosed with epstein- barr virus which effects the spleen and is part of the thoracic duct. I have also read that lipomas were loaded with histamine and mast cells. Anyone else suffer from horrible allergies?

[Laura Roslin]

I like the lymphatic system theory. Mine also seem to be above lymph sites and every year or so I get swollen glands. I have been diagnosed with epstein- barr virus which effects the spleen and is part of the thoracic duct. I have also read that lipomas were loaded with histamine and mast cells. Anyone else suffer from horrible allergies?

I have had very bad allergies - almost asthmatic - all of my life.

I do not have skin allergies, but I do have a skin problem - I develop keloids over scars.

[pierre]

Hi Laura,

According to Dr. David Derry

If the iodine intake and tissue levels are adequate, such as in Japan, keloid formation doesn't happen

7th paragraph at this page http://thyroid.about.com/library/derry/bl2a.htm

And according to the Internet Journal of Dermatology:

Keloids are benign fibrous growths that result from an abnormal connective tissue response in certain predisposed individuals. Trauma, foreign-body reactions, infections, and endocrine dysfunction have all been proposed as precipitating factors.

http://www.ispub.com/journal/the_intern ... loids.html

Parhaps we should think 'endocrine' before 'lymphatic'

[pierre]

I think what causes lipomas is much more obvious than most people recognise.
Our bodies are continually bombarded with toxins from the air, processed foods, fertilizers, pesticides etc etc etc.
If the level of toxic bombardment is too much for the body to cope with, then some of these toxins will have to be stored inside the body.

It's just like the rubbish collection services. Normally they come around once or twice a week and take all our garbage away to the dump. If however the rubbish collection service slows down or stops then the number of rubbish bags starts to build up inside the home. Eventually the number of uncollected rubbish bags becomes so big that an entire room has to be allocated for their storage........ and the room is given a name by the owners, the lipoma room.

It is no secret that the fat tissues inside the body are the first place where excess toxins are stored.

It is interesting to note Dr. Herbst's related findings in people with Dercums Disease (DD)

1.Dercums Disease (DD) patients have an abnormal body system in which their blood vessels are too porous and leak toxins into the body. Blood vessels in normal people only leak small amounts.

2.The DD body system is also less efficient at cleaning up these toxins. The healthy body’s response is to send the toxins to the liver and then remove them from the body.

3.In DD, toxins and blood collect outside the blood vessels, causing inflammation and even fermentation.

4.The body responds by sending microphage cells to the inflamed area to contain the inflammation.

5.The microphage cells combine with the blood and toxins and form lipomas.

[sjohn]

I think what causes lipomas is much more obvious than most people recognise.
Our bodies are continually bombarded with toxins from the air, processed foods, fertilizers, pesticides etc etc etc.
If the level of toxic bombardment is too much for the body to cope with, then some of these toxins will have to be stored inside the body.

It's just like the rubbish collection services. Normally they come around once or twice a week and take all our garbage away to the dump. If however the rubbish collection service slows down or stops then the number of rubbish bags starts to build up inside the home. Eventually the number of uncollected rubbish bags becomes so big that an entire room has to be allocated for their storage........ and the room is given a name by the owners, the lipoma room.

It is no secret that the fat tissues inside the body are the first place where excess toxins are stored.

It is interesting to note Dr. Herbst's related findings in people with Dercums Disease (DD)

1.Dercums Disease (DD) patients have an abnormal body system in which their blood vessels are too porous and leak toxins into the body. Blood vessels in normal people only leak small amounts.

2.The DD body system is also less efficient at cleaning up these toxins. The healthy body’s response is to send the toxins to the liver and then remove them from the body.

3.In DD, toxins and blood collect outside the blood vessels, causing inflammation and even fermentation.

4.The body responds by sending microphage cells to the inflamed area to contain the inflammation.

5.The microphage cells combine with the blood and toxins and form lipomas.

Thanks Pierre. Not sure when did Dr. Herbst published that but i haven't noticed it before. That's an awesome find. Where did you get that attachment from?

[sjohn]

Here is the video



Very good stuff ! Good explanation!

[pierre]

Hi, yes that's the source, Dercums Disease as presented on Discovery Health TV in June 2010
http://www.mdjunction.com/dercums-disea ... -june-2010

In the video, start at 2:02
"In a healthy individual, small amounts of fluid containing toxins continually leak from blood vessels and are easilly flushed out of the body......."

The xenobiotic compounds came from this pdf file:
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/5/1/52.pdf

What is also interesting is the number of people who developed lipomas after exposure to agent orange adding weight to the theory that lipomas are caused by toxic overload.

My question is: Why is there precious little information detailing exactly what is inside all these surgically removed lipomas ?
Maybe they know they are full of toxins but do not want to talk about it because it undermines the reasons for surgical excision and exposes the truth, i.e. that surgery is an expensive option that does nothing to address the real problem

[matt]

Thank you sjohn for the excellent video!

I have never seen that before although Dr. Herbst I've known for a long time. Probably one of only videos there are about lipomatosis and Dercum's Disease. Very interesting, although I find Dr. Herbst's reasoning somewhat unlikely. But then again she has a medical education I don't

Still, her explanation about macrophages that need food and develop more fat cells around them sounds just odd to me. Why on earth would the body create huge lumps of fat for the small macrophages? Not likely. There might be some truth behind her theory but I just can't see the "food storage theory" happening...

And I wish she had actually mapped the so-called genetic predisposition whether it actually existed in the patients fat cells. In the patients normal (not lipoma) fat cells, that is.

I would also like to know whether Dr. Herbst is aware that the ozone infusion therapy or eboo cured a patient with Madelung Disease. She is being so pessimistic on the video about the lack of treatments that I think she isn't aware of all possible treatments. Which I find very odd.

To pierre. I have wondered the same by myself. Everywhere I look for the information about the contents of lipoma growths, I find nothing. Some slicing and terms like " clusters of normal fat cells" but no information about composition of different substances, possible toxins, fungi, parasites or whatever...?

[matt]

Another link to microorganisms, Fusobacterium this time.

When the researchers studied and compared healthy tissue and tumor tissue to each other, they found out that there was unusually large amounts of Fusobacterium's signature DNA in the tumor tissue.

"Tumors and their surroundings contain complex mixtures of cancer cells, normal cells, and a variety of microorganisms such as bacteria and viruses,"

"Over the past decade, there has been an increasing focus on the relationship between cancer cells and their 'microenvironment,' specifically on the cell-to-cell interactions that may promote cancer formation and growth." Source

Of course the researchers remain puzzled about the relationship of the microorganisms and tumors but if it talks like a duck and if it walks like a duck, oh well, I guess it has to be a duck

I have a feeling that it's these microorganisms that combine, alter or otherwise effect the cell''s DNA so that it loses control of itself and starts multiplying. Although this may be because of a natural immune defense, and a kind of designed procedure. The immune system is adjusting to the situation that there's an alien life form and it does the best it can. It tries to surround and capsulate the life form with cells, thus the tumor. I have considered this more in the lipoma genetics thread.

There's also an unfamous Nobel Prize winner, Johannes Fibiger, who won his prize in 1926 in Physiology or Medicine. Atleast I have never herad from him.

He found out that microparasites could actually cause cancer.

...in the centre of the neoplasm he noted the presence of a worm belonging to the family of Spiroptera.

Fibiger did not succeed at first in proving a relationship existing between the formation of the neoplasm and the worm. The attempts to provoke a cancer in healthy mice by making them ingest neoplastic tissue from diseased mice, and containing worms or eggs, failed completely. Fibiger then had the idea that perhaps this worm, like many others, underwent part of its evolution from an egg to an adult individual in another animal, which served as an intermediate host. After numerous and vain attempts to find again mice attacked by the tumours seen in 1907 - he unsuccessfully examined more than 1000 animals - Fibiger eventually discovered in a sugar refinery in Copenhagen mice who exhibited in considerable numbers the type of tumour he was seeking; in these tumours he found once again the worm he had observed in 1907. The factory was at this time infested with cockroaches, and Fibiger was then able to establish that the worm in its evolution used these cockroaches as intermediate hosts. The cockroaches ingested the excreta of the mice, and with them the eggs of the worm. These developed in the alimentary tract of the cockroaches into larvae, which, like the trichina, were distributed into the muscles of the insects where they become encapsulated. The cockroaches were in their turn eaten by the mice and in the stomach the larvae transformed into the adult form. Source

Talking about some science fiction movie ideas!

Some more evidence to the parasite induced tumors are the facts that the cancer cells in vitro (in test tube) will not multiply without the addition of a growth factor, such as blood serum from calves and up to 96% of cancer cells have membrane-cell features.

That’s because cancer originates with infected membrane cells that receive epithelial growth factors from fungi or other parasites. Fungal infection of leukocytes (white blood cells) causes leukemia, but tumors do not form because leukocytes do not form membranes.

Bone cancer does not cause unrestrained bone growth because fungi do not produce bone growth factor. The same limitation applies to all organ tissue. Cancer consumes those cells that require growth factors fungi don't have. Fungi produce epithelial growth factor (EGG), like the skin of a mushroom, which can combine with human epithelial growth factor to mutate cell walls. New cells are unsuitable for performing their original function and are rejected like a skin graft that does not take. Fungi also produce bodies, like a mushroom, complete with arteries and veins as found in tumors formed by these mutated and rejected cells. All aspects of tumor growth have a fungal-based explanation.

Why we do not experience cancer of the heart, arteries or veins?

If cancer metastasizes through flowing blood, as we are told, we should have cancer in these tissues first. Why not? The high oxygen level in flowing blood destroys fermentative cells (cells extracting energy from the oxidation of organic compounds, such as carbohydrates, using an endogenous electron acceptor, which is usually an organic compound).

That’s why oxygen and ozone therapy, banned in North America, can help prevent and cure cancer. Unrestrained growth of abnormal cells must stop if we eliminate the microbial source of growth factors in our body by eliminating all parasites. A herbal parasite cleanse program will help. Numerous effective cancer cures that reduce or eliminate infection, inflammation, toxins and pollutants are being ignored or suppressed while archaic methods that destroy the immune system and rapidly growing cells are permitted.

Destroying all rapidly growing cells with toxic drugs is a horrible medical mistake because it defeats the body’s only method to stop rapid cancer growth.

I borrowed and modified a lot from here. There's also a nice explanation of how injuries trigger rapid and unrestrained tissue growth. I have had lipomas appeared to the spots of a trauma. It usually takes some months before the growth can be felt. I think currently that these parasites find their way to the trauma and inflammation locations and start producing growth factors, eat through membrane walls, infect adjacent cells, and initiate the current of injury.

The current of injury is an electric current generated when an injured part of a nerve, muscle, or other excitable tissue is connected through a conductor with the uninjured region; the injured tissue is negative to the uninjured.

Why aren't people born with cancer like the genetic Down's syndrome or why can identical twins get different diseases?

These ideas come mostly from the book called CANCER : Cause, Cure and Cover-up in which the author presents a theory that parasitic growth factors initiate abnormal so-called “benign” growth and that the current-of-injury initiates unrestrained “malignant” growth. Must be a good book to read. Just ordered me a copy