What causes lipomas?

[matt]

The previous post is mostly just plain old BS with no reference what so ever. No "massive scale" research on lipomatosis has ever been done. The biggest studies include few dozens of people. Much less concerning any lifestyle variables. What is true, is that no study has been able to detect any lifestyle variables which could be associated with lipomatosis. Except living in a family where there's a previous case of lipomatosis detected.

And most people with lipomatosis have a variety of mutations in their lipomas, not just one. I would say the single mutation in lipomatosis would have to be a one in a million case. Usually even different lipomas in one person include different mutations. And it goes even further. Different parts of one single lipoma may manifest different mutations. Nice, huh?

About the research part... Your idea is not new at all and it's not a bad idea but what we really would need is certain kind of genetic studies first. Actually there are a couple of mini-size surveys already here on the board like this one.

In addition I have a forum member who has done an even longer survey but I haven't had the time to think all the things what would need to be asked. Maybe we should start a new thread to first think throughly the questionary?

What we really would need is to know the exact method of how lipomatosis is transmitted from parent to the child. We would need some researcher to genetically investigate what is it that actually transmits from the parent to the child. My best guess is that it's got something to do with either epigenetics or then it's not genetical at all.

[Guest]

No "massive scale" research on lipomatosis has ever been done. The biggest studies include few dozens of people. Much less concerning any lifestyle variables.

As a reminder, the big epidemiological studies asked several thousand participants to complete highly detailed surveys covering all relevant lifestyle variables. For example, some on this board have observed that they started to get lipomas at the same time as they started to lift weights in the gym. Or when they started to drink coffee. These are the types of lifestyle variables captured in the surveys and physician interviews. (By the way, these surveys are designed by experts.)

In most cases, the researchers are not targeting a specific disease, any health issue that the doctor observes is recorded, and then correlated with the lifestyle variables. So the participant who shows his lipomas to the research doctor and has completed a survey that says he lifts weights and drinks coffee probably is not even thinking that he is participating in a "lipoma study". Nor is the other participant who also lifts weights and drinks coffee but reports no lipomas to his research doctor in the study.

So what did they find? Well, many times the researchers have discovered surprising links between lifestyle and environmental variables and common diseases. Most of our understanding of how lifestyle variables affect health comes from these types of studies rather than one researcher working with a few patients. I am not an expert on epidemiological studies, but just off the top of my head the big famous studies that come to mind are: The Cornell China Study, The National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, Raine Study, Duke Longevity Study.

So there is no need for us to "play doctor"---the real doctors have already done this work. Practice Guidelines don't just appear out of thin air--they are based on science.

One caveat: this applies to common lipomatosis. Rare disorders like Dercum's Syndrome or some of the super rare lipoma variants sometimes reported on this board are not going to get the coverage in epidemiological studies.

Regards.....

[matt]

Thank you for your opinion Guest but it is irrelevant to most of us here on this board. I believe you agree with me that surveys aren't really a very scientific way of doing research?

It's perfectly fine if you do not wish to "play a doctor" but please do not feed your pessimistic thoughts to others. I have been here long enough to know that most "real doctors" don't have a clue about lipomatosis. And I'm not the only one who thinks so - I have studies to prove it (like the one in my previous post).

Nobody should be giving false hope to people but you shouldn't try to stop the people who are willing to try. And you shouldn't forget e.g. Lorenzos oil (this oil was formulated by Augusto and Michaela Odone after their son Lorenzo was diagnosed with adrenoleukodystrophy. They weren't doctors but concerned and interested parents who educated themselves by reading medical literature).

In the end the parents couldn't cure their son but they showed that sometimes - with the right kind of attitude and persistence - it's possible to outsmart the traditional medicine.

So Guest, I think you have now made your point clear. You are against of the alternative research and opinions. We got it. No need to repeat oneself over and over again. Everyone can do their own decision whether to continue following this board or not, okay?

[matt]

Environmental causes have indeed been connected to lipomas.

I have personally witnessed that many of my lipomas (if not all?) have appeared after some kind of a trauma. Meaning that I have accidentally bumped into something, I develop bruising and then a couple of months later I can feel a tiny hardening in the area. After a few more months I can feel a lipoma there. These are often called as posttraumatic lipomas.

There are even few studies made about traumas and lipomas. Some are against it and some not:

Lipoma is the most common benign soft tissue tumour in human beings. It can be seen in all parts of the body and occupies the subcutaneous compartment predominantly. The pathogenesis of lipoma is still unknown, but trauma is one of the most implicated etiological factors. We report about two athletes with a very quickly grown lipoma on their right scapular area. One was a professional volleyball player and the other one was a table-tennis player. Both patients were right-handed. To our knowledge, there has been no report on sport-induced lipoma in the literature. We speculate that chronically minor traumas especially to the scapular area, in which fat tissue is located between the bone and the firm skin, may trigger the formation and enlargement of lipoma.

Sport-induced lipoma
Lipomas after blunt soft tissue trauma: are they real?
Lipoma due to chronic intermittent compression as an occupational disease
Posttraumatic lipoma: analysis of 10 cases and explanation of possible mechanisms

But like I said there's no need for the controversy. I've personally witnessed the happening many times. Traumas can indeed trigger lipoma formation.

In addition to traumas some studies have associated also obesity with lipomas as well as some vaccines and antidiabetic drugs.

[Guest]

Matt: One question about your very last sentence above. Is your intent with this board that it be focused on "alternative research and opinions"? There could be many other reasons for people to follow this board other than "alternative research". For example, someone is posting about doctor advice, someone is posting about how to minimize scars, etc. I have never suggested that people necessarily stop following this board. An exchange of real facts could be helpful.

But another approach would be that the opinions on this board be limited to supporting "alternative research". Not so much a dialog on alternative research, but promotion of alternative research.

I could refute the Lorenzo's Oil myth built in Hollywood and speak to those lipomas caused by trauma.


Regards......

[matt]

This discussion is going too far from the topic but let me just copy&paste this quickly FYI:

An Ongoing Search For Lipoma Treatment And Lipoma Cure
What is Lipoma Board? A forum and community offering information, alternative treatments, resources and support concerning lipomas, lipomatosis and other related conditions. Surgery shouldn't be the only option! Lipomas are fatty tumors under the skin.

In no point have you suggested anything other than to see our doctors and to read medical manuals which preach all the same. For me that is not enough. And I believe many others here think alike. And I see you are not too fond of it for some odd reason. But we have now heard your opinion, no need to repeat your harangue.

No more unrelated posts, thanks.

[breezy]

Today was the fourth doctor that I have seen to get some information on lipomas. This time it was a dermatologist. So far I started out with my family doctor who had little information but said the main words "leave alone." I have also seen two general surgeons and now this dermatologist. I have asked many questions and still get the same response. This is a genetic condition and you can either have surgery or leave them alone. Well I just had 37 lipomas removed 5 weeks ago and have about the same left. I had a follow up for the second time after surgery with my general surgeon and he told me he does not want to remove anymore until they get bigger. He said that there is a possibility to get them melted by a thing called body sculpting but I am hesitant to just melt the lipoma. I don't even know if this is an option. To be honest with you every doctor has told me that I have no other options. I have read about liposuction but none of these drs say it will work. They say it is just for fat and that it will not remove the lipomas. I am almost to the point of just praying and hoping for a cure rather than spending my money on the same repeated information. I was also told that mederma and other scar treatments were a waste of money and that I should just massage the scars with vasoline or skin oil. The derm dr. told me that the lipomas should stay small but there is a possibility they can grow big. If anyone has questions for me, I am willing to let you know what I asked and was told by the drs. Honestly if you have seen a few drs. or whoever I'm sure you recieved the same info. I am positive there will be a cure but worry it may be awhile. I have contacted Dr. Karen Herbst and am very tempted to give this one last chance for some info that will maybe help our problem. Thanks for reading and I hope to GOD we find a cure. Have a good day.

[robin]

In trawling around online I found the following claim - that I copied onto a document so now I don't know where it came from [sorry!]

"I have found that these lipomas are not fat at all. If you have one removed, ask the surgeon for a pathlogy report. They are not human tissue. They are tapeworms that form into round balls. Cystercicosis is caused by the pork tapeworm is from what I have researched. One can be vegetarian and still get pork tapeworms from contaminated water, soil, air and passed by unsanitary measures. Removing one or several lipomas surgically will not help. You need to treat the larva, eggs, adults and cysts or the infestation will get severe, they can travel to the brain (neurocystercicosis), many times misdiagnosed as dementia, brain tumors, lipomas in the brain. Seriously, research it!"

But it led me in that direction and I came across a website that discusses the various types of parasites, including the lyme-related ones that have been mentioned in this thread, and lipomas indeed under their discussion of tapeworms:
https://humaworm.com/parasitetypes.html
(the site owners produce and sell herbal parasite-cleansing products)

(This wouldn't address the lipomas that some of you have mentioned following traumas, however).

For what it's worth, I live in an area that is a red-zone for lyme (and related diseases) and have lived in third-world countries, and until reading the site still didn't imagine how incredibly prevalent and parasites are in the human population. I will be testing out their protocol and will report back here if it makes any difference to the lipomas I have.

[Danny1]

the info you pasted is from here:

http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/lipoma.html

best,
Danny

[matt]

I think the poster is mixing real lipomas and certain kinds of cysts.

Although there might be some truth behind the microbes in lipomas I do not believe it has anything to do with Cysticercosis. The scientist have not reported any microbes in lipomas. That doesn't mean there wouldn't be any, it's just that it hasn't been throughly investigated because most scientist think it's irrelevant.

A tapeworm and worms in general are huge compared to bacteria and viruses. If a tapeworm would actually be inside a lipoma it would have been surely noticed already. Instead many bacteria and most viruses are so tiny that they are almost impossible to see with standard staining methods and microscopes. And like I said before scientist aren't really looking for microbes in lipomas.



In addition, lipomas have indeed been noticed to really consist of fat cells which have enlarged vacuoles.

But I find it extremely interesting that a tapeworm is capable of inducing a cystic growth in a human tissue!

An epidemiological study of familial neurocysticercosis in an endemic Mexican community is an interesting study. They investigated the relevance of age, gender, and genetic and exposure factors on neurocysticercosis susceptibility.

They didn't find clear evidence of familial aggregation but found a significant relationship between mother and child in cases with multiple parasites.

These findings point to the fact that human neurocysticercosis in high exposure conditions is not simply related to exposure factors and they do not support the participation of a major gene in single-cyst intriguing. Rather, our results point to a complex interaction of genetic and environmental factors involved in neurocysticercosis.

In another study called Familial clustering of Taenia solium cysticercosis in the rural pigs of Mexico: hints of genetic determinants in innate and acquired resistance to infection the researchers found intriguing associations between cysticercosis vaccine and cysticercosis prevalence. They reported that there was indeed a familial clustering of cysticercosis detected!

So in this parasitic condition there seems to be a clear familial incidence.

I would like to know more about similar conditions and studies where a parasite or microbe infection (especially tumorgenesis) has a greater susceptibility inside the family. If anyone has links or information about it, please post.

[cta7978b]

So, maybe my theory is all wrong, but I was diagnosed with Dercum's disease, painfull fatty lipomas, that came out of nowhere. I now think they aren't "lipomas" at all, I think they are fat herniations. At least a couple of the tall skinny guys with Dercum's disease have a connective tissue disorder called Marfan's syndrome, causing dysfunction in connective tissue. I think it causes tears in the fascia allowing the fat to herniate through (this can cause pain).
My symptoms started at the time of physical activity and I was eating blocks of hard cheese at the time.

One of the most concentrated forms of (TGF-B Rich) casein is found in cheese. Cheese is rich in TGF-beta. The culprit in Marfan syndrome patients is TGF-beta. MFS patients have very high levels of TGF-beta in their bodies.. I wonder if my eating blocks of cheese every night around the time this happened kicked something off (of course I haven't been diagnosed with Marfan's yet, just suspect it)..

Whey protein powder is the highest source of TGF-Beta I believe. I think whey protein powder is probably in lots of weight loss supplements and muscle building supplements.

http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/dercum ... s-relation

[LifeLongLearner]

I have had these for most of my life.

I asked a dermatologist why I keep getting them. "Bad Luck"

I have one now that I let go way too long and requires surgery.

17x6x4cm Left tricep.

I believe general anesthesia unfortunately will be required.

[Jazzo]

Hi! I'm new to the board. I've had lipomas mostly on my forearms and now they have started popping up on my shoulders. I'm still wondering if it really is genetic as my identical twin sister does not have any lipomas. Anyway, I have been weight training for the last 10 years and whenever I'm in a phase where I'm training really hard and really heavy this is when I notice more lipomas starting to appear.

I have quite a lot of lipomas, too many to count and I still wear sleevless tops. I try to live with a positive attitude towards my lipomas and think that out of all the "deformaties" in the world to have, it really could be worse. However, I do know that I could develop even more than I have now or they could grow bigger. If it comes to a stage where it really bothers me, can anyone tell me if there is a recovery time required for surgical or liposuction removal? Also, I've seen some websites for clinics here in the UK offering some kind of laser surgery that's supposed to melt the lipoma. Does anyone know anything about this?

[matt]

Genetic yes. Genetically inherited? Most likely not.

[Jan]

I am joining your company.
I have more lipoma lumps over my body than years. I am 72 yo and RHS.
The biggest one, size of half tennis ball, is located on LHS shoulder.
Those lumps starting to grow when I was 18 yo. Everyone knows what was the advice or answer from doctors.
To my opinion I was infected with candida or other fungi as a child. As a 4 yo child one of my nail on left hand started to go out and was replaced by new one.
There were no any injury to that finger. It didn't came out without a reason.
All my life was miserable. I had all syndromes for candidiases. Three years ago i purchase a USB microscope to see the culprit causing itching in my onus. I put that microscope in my mouth instead. The whole mouth was full of white mater covered with a solid biofilm. My GP said this are good bacteria. Another GP said it is fungi and referred me to a specialist. I started to demonstrate my mouth on a computer monitor. She didn't allow me to finish saying this method of examination is not officially approved. Than I asked her to identify that fungi. She call lab and said me all samples from mouth are containing Candida, but you have not Candida. And sent me back to GP. GP was very reluctant to do so. Eventually I get his reference to lab. Lab test revels Candida spp. The whole process lasted 1.5 year. At that time I learned a lot about Candida treatment from the book Gribkowyje Infekcjii - pykovodstvo dla Vrachej by Sergeev A.U.and Sergeev U.V. (Fungus Infections - doctors' guide).
Now I am on Fluconaze 300mg daily for 14 months and monitoring progress in killing Candida.
And now the main issue is all lipoma lumps starting to shrink. The biggest one on the left shoulder is half the size before treatment started.
Congratulation Matt.
You will find out what you are searching. I am admiring your persistence and interpreting the facts.
I would suggest to examine lipoma lumps for fungus existence, especially for Candida albicans. It is a pleomorphism fungi.
The Russian PhD. V.N. Solopov proved that Candida albicans is responsible for asthma and allergy.
All AIDS patients are infected by Candida albicans.
Maybe a mutant of Candida albicans is responsible for cancers?

[matt]

Thank you Jan for your feedback!

[marcod]

Dear Jan,

thank you for your story. Please let us know if your lumps go away completely.
Just one question: do you have anyone with lipomas in your family?
Bye
Marco

[Jan]

No one had lipomas in my family. I am guessing you are asking for inheritance.
In most cases inheritance is in a kitchen. Genes are plans only - a construction has not started yet. Another word: gins are tools and it is our responsibility to use them.

The lipomas were growing for over 50 years and one can't expect to be dissolved in a couple of years. By increasing the speed of dissolving them my liver would be in trouble to deal with toxins. I am happy with that speed and lipoma's shrinkage indicates that Fluconazole works.

[Jan]

To Matt.
Can you please transfer these picture to top post for better comparison.
Thanks
Jan



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[detoxqueen303]

There's a section about lipomas about 3/4 of the way down this page:

http://www.ener-chi.com/blog/health-qa- ... flush-q-a/

I'm going to try a liver cleanse and see if this improves the lipoma